There’s an extra chair around the Tabletop as Peter Jones of Tiger Moth Tales joins the group to go behind the lines of Genesis’ 1980 masterpiece, “Duke.”
Check out Peter’s version of Guide Vocal (and more): https://youtu.be/nUm8x7YPTBQ
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“Paperlate” was the cry that street newspaper sellers would use to sell the final or “late” editions. I remember the sellers of the Evening News and Evening Standard doing this outside the station as I went home after a days work in London.
Well, as I finish listening to this podcast, finally Duke!, I will tell you how this listening experience went. I listened up thru Guide Vocal and then went and bought the Lyceum dvd on Amazon ( I did not know it existed). I have the bootleg cd of it and love, love, love it. The Duke tour was my first Genesis show and would have been my favorite tour that I saw but then they went and played Supper’s Ready on the Abacab tour, which I saw in Chicago and then L.A., and that was IT for me. My favorite song of all time by anybody! Then, after buying the dvd, I put the album on my ipod and listened to side one because the snippets were not enough. I HAD to hear Duchess in full and loud:)! Then, I listened to the rest of the podcast and now I have to listen to side 2 of the album and the bonus tracks. All this new music I have recently purchased, including Red Bazar, and I am listening to Duke again for the ?????? time. That is what this podcast does to me.
Thanx from the bottom of my heart.
Mike
Thanks for such kind words, Mike! I know I can speak for all of us around the tabletop that our envy is “expert level” that you got to see them on the Duke tour. LOVE watching the Lyceum DVD – hey, were you one of the drunkards yelling during the Say It’s Alright, Joe intro? 😉 – Tom
What?! No mention of “Heath-aze” with Mellotron?! Forsooth! 😉
You’re right! I guess I was too distracted by the pronunciation to think of anything else! 😉 I do enjoy the Mellotron addition – who knows, maybe Tony thought of it as well, but moving into the ’80s they kind wanted to shed some of their old prog staples. Apparently, the last use of the Mellotron was on Many Too Many. – Tom
Still listening.. long = good! 🙂
Re Evidence Of Autumn, Don’t the track-opening church mourning bells, hint at anything? Death of relationship, or any death?
Very interesting! Never thought of them as bells, but could make a lot of sense! – Tom
New podcast, yay! Finally!
This was a great one, guys – enjoyed it quite a bit. It also helps that Duke is one of my favorite Genesis albums (not my favorite from the Phil era, that’s A Trick of the Tail, but absolutely near the top) so I was absolutely interested in hearing what all of you had to say 😀
“Heathaze” (I also read it as “heath-aze” at first, and english isn’t my first language too!) is one of my favorite Tony compositions and I agree that it sounds a bit more ATTW3 than the rest of the album – it’s kinda the missing link, between the wintery tones of its predecessor and the summery, breezy feel of Duke. I love the fan-made mellotron version too, except for the fact that it’s so low quality and the song (and arrangement) deserve much better.
Can’t wait for the next episode, keep up the great job!
Re: Misunderstanding
You didn’t mention this, perhaps because you’re unaware but the opening riff is taken from Sly Stone’s Hot Fun In The Summertime. Toto also cited this song as the inspiration for Hold The Line. Just FYI…
The maintained root note on the Taurus pedals through the chorus 1-4-5 chord progression on Man of Our Times is devistatingly effective.
Another great podcast. Duke is the last of the Genesis albums I can listen to in it’s entirety. After that each album only holds one or two tracks I like – blasphemous I know but I wasn’t a fan of their Pop era (it’s very interesting to your views on those albums though!).
Excellent discussion. Great to have a guest onboard. I was at the same 2007 gig as him at Old Trafford.
Duke was their last really good album. It does seem like a concept as was mentioned. I remember reading interviews with the band at the time especially Phil who talked about the ideas and the use of the drum machine. Misunderstanding was a great song at the time but repetitive listening rules it out mainly for the ooh ooh ooh in the chorus.
I don’t agree that tihis was part of a transition. I think this was a fully fledged creation. After this they changed direction and became massive. I went to the Duke gig at Newcastle City Hall (the third time I saw them there) but after that they gave up on the small venues. The next time I saw them was in 2007 at Old Trafford. Fabulous.
Hi, I’ve just recently become a PODCAST-ER (I’m technically retarded due to advanced age..over 50). I think the whole “Duke” concept for me has extreme spiritual undertones (I’m not religious at all) But the opener to me is an obvious reference to the Bible (or?) and a spiritual guide…this to me is supported by the “vocal guide” and the leaving of that person (Christ). Stating I gave you all you need to get by and now it is up to you heed my words or do not the path is up to you. I agree that “Misunderstanding” is an odd-ball song here and I typically skip it altogether…it kills the flow for me. My favorites is Dukes travels-Dukes end…it chokes me up every time I hear it as many Genesis songs do. Afterglow is one i cannot listen to unless alone..it is that deep for me. Thanks for putting these on..very informative and entertaining. My first concert was Duke with Genesis although my brother was all of the Gabriel years in S.F.
Listening to these podcasts has been interesting for someone like myself, older than you folks, and having come to Genesis quite a bit earlier.
For someone of my vintage, Duke represented not a progression to something new and wonderful, but a clear sign that the Genesis I knew was officially over with (And Then There Were Three made clear a transition was afoot). This new Genesis, eager to let Phil Collins and his newfound pop sensibilities drive the agenda, was a band I was much less interested in. The ensuing albums became increasingly unlistenable with the single Invisible Touch (and its unfathomable popularity) serving as the blackest of marks on the band’s legacy.
Had the 1980’s Genesis been my entry point for the band, I’d have surely not climbed aboard. So I find it fascinating that so many see this period otherwise, including all those on the podcast. I knew you people were out there — the band was filling stadiums in the 1980s like never before — but I never understood you (clearly, there must have been some misunderstanding).
There is an “us and them” demarcation in the band’s fandom for which I believe Duke serves as the official dividing line. Subjectively, I can see this album being revered by you folks (who’s to say what music should resonate with whom and how?). But I doubt too many of we grey beard fans of the group would share your opinion.
Maybe it’s weird to be commenting so long after this episode was recorded, but I just discovered this podcast and I have thoughts on “Heathaze”
To me, I imagine the lyric to be, at least in part, about Tony thinking about the changing music scene and the band’s audience as everyday people.
I say maybe he was thinking about the rise of new wave and the Police being the most popular band in the world at time, and maybe not really digging that sound, and part of him not wanting to change the way he writes music to be popular.
“The trees and I are shaken by the same wind, but whereas the trees will lose their withered leaves I just can’t seem to let them loose.”
The trees are the fans, who can change their old habits easily, adapt and accept to the new popular sounds and styles of the time, but Tony has been writing and playing music for quite a while now, and already has a style. It’s, maybe, old fashioned and “withered”, but he doesn’t want to abandon it. As he says,
“I just can’t seem to let them loose.”
Then, the next bit says,
“…and they can’t refresh me, those hot winds of the south.”
The people, the fans, love the “hot” new sounds of the reggae influenced bands. The “south” being Jamaica and the Carribbean. The people love this “hot” new style, but it’s not “refresh[ing]” for Tony. He doesn’t dig it, he’s the odd man out, and so he laments, “I feel like an alien. A stranger in an alien place.”
Finally, this is a thought that is not mine orginally, I found it as a comment somewhere I can’t remember, but this bit:
“Beware the fisherman who’s casting out his line into a dried up river bed, but don’t try to tell him because he won’t believe you.”
The fisherman is Tony. It’s also Genesis. It’s also the old “dinosaur” prog bands in general. They’re all writing this same style over and over, repeating themselves, making basically the same album with tiny changes. They’ve taken everything out of the “river” of prog. It’s dried up, but if you tell them you want change, and they should change their sound, they “wont believe you.”
Still, though, Tony realizes this is an inevitable change that must happen (a theme I think continues in “Cul-de-Sac” with the “You know you’re on the way out. It’s just matter of time.”) so he admits defeat:
“Throw some bread to the ducks instead, it’s easier that way.”
He has to stop trying to win the “ducks” (people, the fans) over with what he’s always been doing (fishing in the prog river, now dried up) and instead give them what they want, the “bread”, because it’s easier to just give people what they want. A solution, yes, but not one he’s happy with, and maybe he’s alone in this opinion. So, he again says, “I feel like an alien, a stranger in an alien place.”
I bought this album the day it came out. Went home, taped it on cassette and went to the local Safeway where by buddy worked. I listened to it in the parking lot until he got off work. And then we drove around for the next hour so he could have a listen. Great post Hackett album. And my man-balls enjoy Heathaze!
Duke is my out and out favorite of the Phil Era. It came out approx at the time that I became obsessed with the Group. I marched down to the record store and bought it as soon as I could. I played it constantly and memorized every bar and lyric. At about the same time I bought Face Value almost a companion album since both benefit from a coming of age of Mr Collins.